Park Operations

[Ryan]

Operations were crap today, there was someone checking restraints on Swarm that was going so slowly, I was tempted to jump the fence and do it for him! Hopefully it's just newbies that will get the kick up the ass that they need.

[Ian-S]

Young lad black hair, looked a bit like Timmy Hill (Google him)?

If so he was on Colossus last weekend.

[Coaster]

Will they never learn?!

https://twitter.com/Dutty360/status/728966676927135744

[Marc]

1 hour ago, Coaster Jamie said:

Will they never learn?!

https://twitter.com/Dutty360/status/728966676927135744

Saw both rides shutdown this afternoon which may have contributed!

[JoshC.]

Before we jump on board the Thorpe bashing train, let's remember a few things...

 

-A picture means very little unless there's context to be placed within it.

-A long Fastrack queue doesn't necessarily imply there are any more negative effects to the normal queue than a short Fastrack queue.

-The number of Fastrack tickets that can be sold is dependent on the length of a ride's queue.

-A ride breaking down and reopening later can cause havoc with the Fastrack system.

-There were likely many guests who had planned visits for today with the intention of riding Ghost Train.  There's a good chance that many of those people are AP holders, who quite possibly also visited during AP day and so have some Priority Passes to use up.  Today would therefore be seen as a good day to cash those Priority Passes in, which can lead to an inflating in a Fastrack queue since they're not taken out of the Fastrack quota.  

-This is the first time such an incident has occurred this season.  And aside from extremely busy days, such as at Fright Nights, I can't recall a time in the past couple of seasons when Fastrack queues looked that bad (correct me if I'm wrong)?  Of course, bad things should never happen, but sometimes these things do happen.

 

I'm not defending (or attacking) the park with any of the above points, simply just pointing out some facts to remember before people go "THORPE NEVER LEARN AND ARE TERRIBLE AT EVERYTHING!"

[Coaster]

I've seen similar situations happen at Thorpe on several occasions, Fright Nights tend to be the worst though.

I believe that several coasters were on train today which can't have helped (not sure if they went up to two later) - do they reduce the Fastrack quota to take this into consideration?

 

Regarding the priority passes, if people on a fan forum can work out that people with priority passes were going to be on park today then why didn't Thorpe predict this and reduce the quota of Fastracks to be sold on the day?  Money before guest experience.

[JoshC.]

8 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

I've seen similar situations happen at Thorpe on several occasions, Fright Nights tend to be the worst though.

I believe that several coasters were on train today which can't have helped (not sure if they went up to two later) - do they reduce the Fastrack quota to take this into consideration?

 

Regarding the priority passes, if people on a fan forum can work out that people with priority passes were going to be on park today then why didn't Thorpe predict this and reduce the quota of Fastracks to be sold on the day?  Money before guest experience.

What do you mean by similar situations though?  Cases where the Fastrack queue is busy?  If so, that's hardly surprising on busy days.  What I mean is, I haven't seen situations where the Fastrack queues are much larger than I'd anticipate on a given day - this is the first time I've seen that situation in a long time.  

 

In the past, Thorpe have mentioned that Fastrack aims to make the user's queue time a specific fraction of the current queue time (I can't remember what that fraction was and don't have time to check right now.  However, for a crude example, the general idea would be if the aim is for Fastrack users to wait 1/100th of the main queue time, and the queue time for a ride was 100 minutes on average, they would sell - at most - a number of Fastrack tickets that meant every user waited only 1 minute).  Assuming they still use this system, the Fastrack quota would indeed be reduced if a ride was on reduced capacity.  

 

The Priority Pass thing is purely speculation on my behalf; it is possible there were very few PP users today.  However, it is a possible reason for the problem in my opinion.  The trouble is, if you were in Thorpe's shoes, it's not really worth saying "Let's reduce the number of Fastracks we sell today, and so reduce our profit, just because there might be some more people using Priority Passes than usual".  It's not putting money before guest experience in that case, it's just making the correct business decision at the end of the day.  

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if they stopped selling Fastrack tickets before they reached the maximum number anyway, to cover themselves for Priority Passes and the like.

 

[lewumbrajumbos]

4 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said:

Will they never learn?!

https://twitter.com/Dutty360/status/728966676927135744

Wait what, what do you want them tu do </3

[KingNemesis]

17 hours ago, BaronC. said:

Before we jump on board the Thorpe bashing train, let's remember a few things...

 

-A picture means very little unless there's context to be placed within it.

-A long Fastrack queue doesn't necessarily imply there are any more negative effects to the normal queue than a short Fastrack queue.

-The number of Fastrack tickets that can be sold is dependent on the length of a ride's queue.

-A ride breaking down and reopening later can cause havoc with the Fastrack system.

-There were likely many guests who had planned visits for today with the intention of riding Ghost Train.  There's a good chance that many of those people are AP holders, who quite possibly also visited during AP day and so have some Priority Passes to use up.  Today would therefore be seen as a good day to cash those Priority Passes in, which can lead to an inflating in a Fastrack queue since they're not taken out of the Fastrack quota.  

-This is the first time such an incident has occurred this season.  And aside from extremely busy days, such as at Fright Nights, I can't recall a time in the past couple of seasons when Fastrack queues looked that bad (correct me if I'm wrong)?  Of course, bad things should never happen, but sometimes these things do happen.

 

I'm not defending (or attacking) the park with any of the above points, simply just pointing out some facts to remember before people go "THORPE NEVER LEARN AND ARE TERRIBLE AT EVERYTHING!"

I think I can comment on some of this since that was my Twitter post

Queue for both rides were 75 minutes normal queue, I know Saw broke down but I don't know if Colossus did after it opened later within the day. I'm not going to lie, my fastrack's were given to me because of the ghost train incident, however this is the problem... Thorpe get way too complacent to just hand out fastrack as a solution (I can't pretend that wasn't the solution when I went to guest services and complained about fastrack) they need to offer other options such as food and drink vouchers and gift shop vouchers etc. 

The issue they have is that Thorpe are well known for overselling fastrack (Depth Charge fastrack kiosk had a queue all day) and combine that with compensation fastrack equates to massive queues. The problem is that then has a knock on effect to the main queue as you couldn't say to the main queue:

"Hey, I know you have waited for 65 minutes and I know your nearly there but I'm just going to let all fastrack people through"

Equally it wouldn't be fair to do the opposite, meaning a balance has to be made and knowing Thorpe they haven't mastered that process meaning big queues for everyone.

It was a busy day yesterday and it felt like the park wasn't ready for it... You know it's not like you can look at the weather and expect a lot of people to come when the sun is beating down... 

I mean Thorpe had no idea!

Oh...

[Mitchada04]

I do always find it odd how Thorpe and to an extent Chessington always have longer Fastrack and disabled queues than Towers. You very rarely here of any issues at Towers (even before said incident and the park was busy) especially with disabled access. I just find it strange how they aren't run the same. Is it because it almost feels like a necessity at Thorpe and Chessie to need Fastrack or disabled access that people run straight to guest services to get their wristband where at Towers they don't? One of my friends has a slight hearing problem, so uses hearing aids at times. He can get a wristband. I think part of the issue lies in how strict they are on who gets the band. I know over the years it has got better but it is still an issue. And the handing out of priority passes is an issue. The actual Fastrack sales I don't think is the problem, it's probably 2 different departments that aren't linked in anyway. That is more likely the issue.

Yet again though this isn't just a Thorpe issue. Disney and Universal both struggle from long Fastrack queues at times. When Fastrack+ at Disney crashes, all hell breaks loose with Fastrack queues overspilling into busy paths majorly. Universal Express Pass is everywhere. 3 hotels with full occupancy get to use the system for free, plus guests paying for it and it's crazy. Often, Minions will have say an 80 minute queue, Express will be about 40 minutes due to its capacity. I'm sure there are many other parks that oversell it as well. When something goes wrong, the systems struggle. Say, in the morning you sell out of Fastrack for Stealth which can happen, then it closes for 2 hours at like 1. Opens at 3, you've got a backlog of Fastrack, everyone on park who hasn't ridden it wanting to and people who were in the queue then getting priority passes. 

[Mysterio Ka]

I have always seen both sides of the argument due to being a carer for my older, severely physically disabled brother. It's a tricky argument to deal with in terms of priority passes, but for fast track there is a much more simple resolution.

Fast track should not be sold. End of. A lot of us agree with that, however it's understandable that companies do it in a scheme to produce more money. The best ran theme parks in the world prove that you really don't need fast track to increase guest satisfaction and it severely damages just that in plenty of situations. Making a fast track free environment would massively decrease queue times, and even the potential to attract more guests due to shorter, more desirable queue lengths, which in turn could create more revenue then selling fast track. Fast track being used as compensation is also an understandable point. Being held on a ride for a long period of time, sometimes in an awkward position can be horrible for guests, and I have seen a lot of people get very angry with staff when they don't issue out fast track in this situation, and I can imagine it's difficult to come up with an alternative offering for this kind of situation, however, if I was some day appointed to run a theme park I'd make it very clear that the environment is for fun, and would be a fast track free area even during breakdowns. 

With priority wrist bands, as I said, it is a tricky situation, however I believe that this is one of those 'tough luck' situations. Parks such as Europa make it very clear on the website that disabled guests are not allowed on certain rides due to their restrictions. If you can't make it through the queue line, you can't go on the ride. Simple as that. In the rare scenario of a break down, evacuations should take place as quickly and safely as possible. If a disability would even slightly effect this, I personally believe that this should stop a guest from riding. As I said, I;m talking from the view of someone who'd have to leave a party member behind when it came to rides because of their disability. 

TL;DR I think ride wristbands should be scrapped, and so should fast track, as this would allow for better park operations entirely. However I do have a question for those who would agree with me. In the situation of a prolonged ride breakdown, what would you (if at all) offer as compensation?

[Marc]

I think it's also important to remember With the Colossus and Saw fastrack queues whilst thy are overflowing, the fastrack queue time is probably still 15 mins or so - both rides have very short physical fastrack queue lengths along with inferno compared to stealth / swarm for example.

I do agree they could hand out better compensation than fastrack which does no doubt add to the problem. 

[Coaster]

Instead of handing out Fastrack maybe they should look at actually addressing the issues raised!

[pognoi]

Expand please.

[Mark9]

9 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

Instead of handing out Fastrack maybe they should look at actually addressing the issues raised!

 

Without context as to why the fastrack queue is so long at that point, there are no issues raised that need addressing. Maybe for instance, this is a one off moment and for the rest of the day the fastrack queue has been negligible. Maybe there's an incompetent member of staff who is prioritising the main queue which has caused that fastrack build up. There's many scenarios that could explain that picture without anything needing addressing.

[Morgan.B]

Operations yesterday were... pretty poor.

Restraint checking on Swarm took quite a while- surprisingly the right side had a 2-3 train wait whilst the left was empty.

Stealth seemed pretty standard.

Colossus was alright, two trains but with the third car being unavailable (not sure if that was both trains). Stacking for a short amount of time as well.

Tidal Wave was horrible. Over an hour's queuing on one boat, only for a second to be added just before we reached the station. 

Saw had, arguably, the worst operations I've seen on a ride. We queued at least 90mins, stopping for about 10-15 minutes after we had moved. We discovered this wasn't the ride (mainly), but how they let an awful amount of Fastrack in. As we (finally) entered the building, the op said over the microphone "Could you let more Fastrack in please". Apparently there was a large "Boooooo!" throughout the queue.

We ended the day with a BTS on Inferno and it makes you realize how busy the engineers are.

[Coaster]

3 hours ago, Heather-Rose said:

Expand please.

I mean that instead of giving everyone who complains a Fastrack, they should actually look at what has happened and why, and look to improve this.  Many of the problems occurring at Thorpe have been happening for years, and yet it seems that they show no signs of actually improving.

3 hours ago, Mark9 said:

Without context as to why the fastrack queue is so long at that point, there are no issues raised that need addressing. Maybe for instance, this is a one off moment and for the rest of the day the fastrack queue has been negligible. Maybe there's an incompetent member of staff who is prioritising the main queue which has caused that fastrack build up. There's many scenarios that could explain that picture without anything needing addressing.

King Nemesis provided context above for this particular situation.

2 hours ago, Morgan.B said:

Operations yesterday were... pretty poor.

Restraint checking on Swarm took quite a while- surprisingly the right side had a 2-3 train wait whilst the left was empty.

Stealth seemed pretty standard.

Colossus was alright, two trains but with the third car being unavailable (not sure if that was both trains). Stacking for a short amount of time as well.

Tidal Wave was horrible. Over an hour's queuing on one boat, only for a second to be added just before we reached the station. 

Saw had, arguably, the worst operations I've seen on a ride. We queued at least 90mins, stopping for about 10-15 minutes after we had moved. We discovered this wasn't the ride (mainly), but how they let an awful amount of Fastrack in. As we (finally) entered the building, the op said over the microphone "Could you let more Fastrack in please". Apparently there was a large "Boooooo!" throughout the queue.

We ended the day with a BTS on Inferno and it makes you realize how busy the engineers are.

One boat on Tidal Wave?!  On a hot day like this and with Loggers closed as well!  Are they serious?  

Just to be clear, it's obvious to me that the engineers work very hard, but there clearly aren't enough of them to cope with the demand.

[Roodie]

Just a little thought that popped in to my head.  Would people prefer to get free food vouchers instead of priority passes.  The reason I ask as trying to feed a family of four on park can be very expensive.  Personally I would rather save the money on food.

[Matt 236]

Food and/or shop vouchers would be a big improvement. 

 Let's face it, fastrack improves everything and I'm sure halving numbers or removing it  completely won't make that much difference. 

[Benin]

It improves things for those willing to pay, for everyone else, it's not great when it's in massive quantities which is where the UK parks fall down the most...

I think it's a cultural thing too, in Spain and Germany it's very rare to see lots of people using it, and its even cheaper than ours...

[Tom]

Problem with giving in out vouchers for food etc from a business point of view is that the food costs them money - The rides are included in the price of the park ticket and whilst you can pay to skip queues, in reality it doesn't cost the park any more money

[JohnD]

6 hours ago, Benin said:

I think it's a cultural thing too, in Spain and Germany it's very rare to see lots of people using it, and its even cheaper than ours...

PortAventura is one of the worst parks I've ever been to in terms of fastrack overselling, with up to half capacity on major rides given over to fastrack.

Sadly it's something a lot of people now expect parks to offer, credit to the likes of Efteling and Europa Park for refusing to go down that route.

[Benin]

I've heard of the stories of PA, though when I visited (with unlimited Fastrack via the hotel), there was mostly just me and mark9 in the queues... Similarly at Parque d'Attractiones where it was €30 for unlimited stuff, few people used it... Spaniards probably don't bother since they jump the queues for free anyway...

[MattyMoo]

I'm on park tomorrow so will see how things are running... but I guess it's going to be just a touch quieter tomorrow vs. the first sunny weekend of 2016.

[Cal]

I still find it annoying how Thorpe advertise a 9:30 opening but can't manage to get the rides open for then. For example on Sunday we get in and walk round to Colossus which was closed, then Saw which was closed, then Slammer which was closed, then round to IAC which was closed.

Much preferred it when they advertised a 10 opening and let AP holders in at 9:30ish when rides were ready.